Hi everyone, I am Sam Shirazi and this is federal fallout the 2025 Virginia elections this episode, I will be interviewing Pat Dennis the President of American Bridge 21st century Pat, thank you for joining me.
00:14.39
Pat deNNIS
Hey, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
00:16.27
Sam Shirazi
so I guess the start I could you just tell me a little bit about yourself and your organization.
00:21.59
Pat deNNIS
Yeah, for sure. I'm Pat Dennis. I run American Bridge 21st Century. We're a super PAC, but a little unusual in the super PAC world. We do spend money on ads and all the traditional super PAC stuff, but we're really focused on opposition research, right?
00:36.55
Pat deNNIS
Digging up the stuff that Republicans don't want, known about them, making sure it gets out of there so voters voters can know like and make informed decisions. And we do that.
00:47.94
Pat deNNIS
you know We do investigative work and we also do candidate tracking. right well We'll go to their events and record what they're saying because it's pretty common for these Republicans to go to one event and say one thing to one group and then say a different thing to a different group. So that's always something we're watching watching out for.
01:04.82
Pat deNNIS
And we do lots of media monitoring and rapid response and work with the media and work with, you know, ad makers and democratic groups everywhere to, to you know, drive a message.
01:15.100
Sam Shirazi
And, you know, I think after the last election, there was a lot of soul searching among Democrats and, you know, how they can reach voters and issues with perhaps not getting as much engagement on social media.
01:29.04
Sam Shirazi
I, you know, from looking at the things that your organization puts out, it seems like you are trying to do things in a way that will get people's attention and get people talking about, you know, some of these issues. And and obviously you're trying to maybe, know,
01:44.46
Sam Shirazi
portray the opposition in a way that is favorable for your candidates that you're trying to support. So could you just talk a little bit about how your strategy to maybe try to get people's attention in this era where it's difficult for things to break through?
01:58.04
Pat deNNIS
Yeah, for sure. And look, if you've got 10 hours, like I can talk about this all day and sometimes I do talk about it all day. We spend a lot of time and energy thinking about where do people get information from?
02:10.46
Pat deNNIS
A lot of people think, oh, you know, the old world is dead. You know, the the news is isn't what it used to be. Television no longer, you know, no longer gets eyeballs. Everybody's just on TikTok. And look, the TikTok thing is real. And there are a lot of eyeballs there. And it sets, you know, it sets a lot of baseline for the information environment.
02:32.83
Pat deNNIS
But what we've really decided in this world that we live in right now is the information environment is a giant interconnected soup, right? It is the people on TikTok.
02:44.66
Pat deNNIS
are generally speaking, not doing like original investigative research, right? If they're talking about original investigative research, it's something they've read in a traditional newspaper and you need to be working with that traditional newspaper if you're trying to disseminate original investigative work.
02:59.66
Pat deNNIS
So like part of it is still just doing the fundamentals. Like for us, like it's this is old school and I'm an old school guy, but if we're attacking, know, a vulnerable Republican in a house district, for example,
03:12.80
Pat deNNIS
For me, like if there's something bad that they did, the place that I like to see that pop up is not in the biggest publication. It's not in the New York Times. It's not on network television news.
03:25.26
Pat deNNIS
It is on their local TV station because, you know one of the weird things when you like look into the current media environment is that local TV stations are still like number one, place where swing voters get their information.
03:40.31
Pat deNNIS
That said, uh democrats have 100 years of experience in how to work with old media we have people whose entire career has been spent it's almost like an apprenticeship right you learn the basics of how to work with the the old like newspapers and we have conventions and we have like we know exactly how it works.
04:03.82
Pat deNNIS
And there is a whole new world out there where a person without a press credential, a person who a lot of folks in this business have never even heard of, can suddenly become the most important voice on an issue or the most important voice in a town or the most important voice. And first of all, like it's extremely important to be out there, like keeping track of these people. Who are they like? What are they talking about? What do they care about?
04:27.45
Pat deNNIS
You know, what can we do to like you know get them the information they need. But at the same time, like we don't have those like hundred years of muscle memory on this. So a lot of this is it's not building the plane while you're flying it. It's like designing the plane while you're flying it. That said, this is politics, right? It's never stood still for an instance. So it's Democrats are really fighting.
04:49.65
Pat deNNIS
You know, it's a real challenge. I think institutionally, I can say Democrats have had a real issue where ah ah You know, we've been so ingrained in the traditional way of doing things that there's like a fear of getting in trouble, as I always call it, like a fear that like there is a big media out there. And if you mess up, that media is going to end your campaign.
05:11.52
Pat deNNIS
And one thing I think we've learned is that ending a campaign is a lot more complicated these days than your local editorial board con condemning you.
05:21.07
Sam Shirazi
Well, I think that that's all helpful in terms of trying to figure out how Democrats can move forward. I did have one, i guess, more technical question, because sometimes we get into the weeds of politics before I want to turn to Virginia.
05:31.48
Pat deNNIS
Yeah. Yeah.
05:33.12
Sam Shirazi
And that's just the what it's like being at a super PAC. So I think you hear often about these super PACs, some of them. are set up for a short period of time. Yours has obviously been around a lot longer.
05:44.92
Sam Shirazi
And I guess my question is also, you know, how does it work with the campaigns?
05:45.04
Pat deNNIS
yeah
05:51.55
Sam Shirazi
Obviously you can't directly coordinate with them. And i'm I'm asking multiple questions. I guess my other question would be, what is it like doing what you're doing while at the same time, maybe the formal campaigns or the DNC is also trying to do similar things?
05:57.87
Pat deNNIS
yeah
06:08.05
Pat deNNIS
Yeah, for sure. So first of all, we are unusual for a super PAC. Most super PACs sort of pop up for an election cycle are a, you know, a PO box somewhere have, you know, don't have frequently. They don't even have like people on staff, right? They just hire consultants.
06:24.93
Pat deNNIS
Yeah. And we are a long term institution and we are designed as a long term institution. And I should say, first and foremost, we don't love that super PACs exist. We are still Democrats. We believe that Citizens United was wrongly decided. And in a different world where it was decided differently, we would be structured differently. But this is the world we're in We cannot unilaterally disarm and we need to use the tools available to us to win elections. So that is, you know, sort of just our take on super PACs.
06:55.85
Pat deNNIS
So, yeah, persist. We are designed under the theory that infrastructure is one of the most important things you can have. And look, I work directly for candidates for years and years and years, and I would come into...
07:10.25
Pat deNNIS
you know a Senate race or a gubernatorial race. And I would build up an opposition research department and I would like spend a year and a half working with these people and like building up incredible systems, building up just like internal like skill sets and tools and, you know, ways of documenting things and relationships.
07:27.80
Pat deNNIS
These great like offices and then Election Day would happen and we'd all just go our separate ways and I do it again next year. And that after a while, i don't think you'd ever run a business like that. Right. So I came to American Bridge. Well, I've I was with American Bridge when it was founded, but I've been back continuously since 2014. So over 10 years at this point.
07:51.74
Pat deNNIS
And every single year we are getting better. at What we do, we're building processes, we are building muscle memory, we're building relationships in ways that constantly builds on itself. So it's really, you know, satisfying place to work, you get to see your work directly influence elections a way that is frequently very difficult to predict, but always exciting.
08:15.29
Pat deNNIS
So that that's part of it. What was what was the other part your three-part question?
08:18.78
Sam Shirazi
Sorry, I asked too many questions at once.
08:20.35
Pat deNNIS
It's all good.
08:21.22
Sam Shirazi
i mean, it's a fascinating topic. I guess, how do you distinguish yourself or or kind of not do the exact same thing that the campaigns do or the DNC does?
08:29.70
Pat deNNIS
Okay. Yeah, for sure. And look, we love the DNC. Like we love the D trip. We love, you know, there's literally an entire ecosystem out here of democratic groups. And we're basically constantly of the opinion that like,
08:48.19
Pat deNNIS
centralization tends to, uh, uh, you know, tends to not work particularly well. And like a thousand flowers blooming is good. And anybody we can legally work with, like we do work with, you know, including independent expenditures and super PACs
09:03.07
Pat deNNIS
so the DNC has like things that we just cannot do, right. They have direct access to senior democratic candidates and are able to like direct,
09:12.79
Pat deNNIS
what they say and who they talk to and like, you know, to some extent messaging, not to downplay how difficult I'm sure that actually is in practice, but they have like a whole bunch of like strengths that we just like don't have.
09:23.73
Pat deNNIS
On the other hand, we have a bunch of strengths that they don't have. Like we have, they have a very good research department, but their research department has like very broad mandates. You know, they're working for the entire national party and we have a real like ability to focus. We don't have, incumbent stakeholders we don't have democrat uh democratic elected officials ever like calling us and say why aren't you doing this why aren't you doing this we get to set our plan we get to stick to our message we get to like really drive home like what we think is the most effective way of doing things at all times which we think you know from an infrastructure standpoint combined with our focus like gives us the ability to have like
10:03.91
Pat deNNIS
just an outsized impact and like figure out the areas where we can have an outsized impact and just like double and triple and quadruple down on it. So that that's sort of how we differentiate ourselves to some extent. But, you know, a lot of this is like alley oops, right? Like we'll get something in the paper and then like, you know, the other groups will boost it and then they'll add something onto it and we'll add something onto that. And it's just like, you know, ah ah it's like a big, you know, bouncing off each other. It's great.
10:29.96
Sam Shirazi
Well, that's all very helpful. I think we do have to turn to Virginia this year because that's the focus of the podcast.
10:35.69
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
10:35.99
Sam Shirazi
And I know that your organization is also focused on Virginia. So generally, you know what are the plans?
10:40.25
Pat deNNIS
yeah
10:41.68
Sam Shirazi
And i know you've already been doing a lot. What do you plan to continue to do all the way up to election day?
10:48.00
Pat deNNIS
Yeah, for sure. And Virginia is unique in the nation in that it is a state where we are actually, you know, there independent expenditure like different like we're allowed to work directly with the campaigns there and we can't anywhere else, which is nice.
11:04.29
Pat deNNIS
Uh, unusual for us. We're not used to it, but we're, we're nice for team players when we get the chance to do it. Uh, so really our areas of focus are a few, probably first and foremost, what I think is our most important role is candidate tracking.
11:19.74
Pat deNNIS
We're up there. We're going to events. We're going to events on the gubernatorial race, the lieutenant governor's race, the attorney general's race, the House races for the critical House seats. And we're keeping track of what people are saying. We're disseminating it.
11:34.30
Pat deNNIS
when they say something wrong and we've had a bunch of like great successes there, including like, you know, catching with some Earl Sears saying some things that she did not necessarily want out there. And, you know, it was the kind of thing where there wasn't any press there, but our, our candidate, our tracker was, and,
11:52.45
Pat deNNIS
able to have some impact that way. The other side of that is opposition research. The, you know, the trackers get out of, get out of the house more often. They're on the road. And then the investigative researchers are sort of sitting in front of a computer screen all day.
12:06.75
Pat deNNIS
But they, you know, they look into these folks voting records, They look into their backgrounds, their financial records, their basically everything say and do and, you know, try to put together a coherent picture. So number one, we can accurately talk about them.
12:22.71
Pat deNNIS
And number two, expose anything that we think is important that voters, you know, sort of underreported to voters.
12:28.94
Sam Shirazi
ah got Got it. And I mean, I should talk about this because this is a Virginia podcast. And, you know, in my mind with the trackers, you think back to 2006 with the Senate race where there was a tracker and George Allen said, you know, something that was...
12:34.10
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
12:39.92
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
12:45.50
Sam Shirazi
probably, where I don't know what he intended to say, but I think reality was it was viewed as a racial slur and that obviously became a big issue.
12:53.74
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
12:55.07
Sam Shirazi
And I think that's like one of the the great tracker moments in political history.
12:59.79
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
12:59.83
Sam Shirazi
And I think that's what often people think of as trackers, like, oh, we're going to cast the candidate saying something crazy or like racist or, you know, something just totally out of there.
13:03.21
Pat deNNIS
yeah
13:09.04
Sam Shirazi
But it sounds like part of the strategy, too, is just to you know accurately report their policy positions. I know in this election, there'd been times where you would release, for example, audio tape of Winston Earl Sears talking about the federal job cuts aren't necessarily anything super scandalous, but you're just kind of reporting what she said.
13:26.03
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
13:32.42
Pat deNNIS
I mean, it's it's important, right?
13:32.54
Sam Shirazi
And
13:34.26
Pat deNNIS
It's not a it's not a scandal in the sense of, you know, of like Watergate, but it's a scandal in the sense of like, these are human beings who are in your state who are like worried about their jobs. And she's saying it's no big deal.
13:44.79
Pat deNNIS
You know, for folks who who didn't see the quote, we caught her at I believe it was an event at a diner. I could be wrong about that, but saying losing your job isn't unusual. It happens to everyone. the media is making this out to be a huge thing. I don't understand why. And she was talking about the the federal government doge cuts. And obviously there's a huge number of federal employees in Virginia.
14:06.77
Sam Shirazi
Right, right. and And I think that was really helpful example of something where it's just, you're just following the candidate and and reporting on what they say.
14:09.69
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
14:16.94
Sam Shirazi
I think sometimes um i honestly, I think this is more of a Republican thing, although I don't know, maybe that there are Democratic trackers who do this too, but there's a genre of tracking where you
14:17.68
Pat deNNIS
yeah
14:23.84
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
14:27.91
Sam Shirazi
go and you try to kind of essentially harass the candidate, try to make them look embarrassing.
14:31.56
Pat deNNIS
yeah
14:32.62
Sam Shirazi
It doesn't sound like you're your organization does that. It sounds like you're just trying to accurately report what they're doing.
14:37.60
Pat deNNIS
Yeah. Speaking as an old man, I can actually give the historical context to this. So when I actually I dropped out of college to be a tracker in Jersey on a and I was tracking Chris Christie in his first for office in in 2009. Right. world 2009, like had.
14:54.12
Pat deNNIS
and in the world of two thousand and nine like we had camcorders. We had even digital camcorders at that time. YouTube existed, but people, you know, it was kind of this weird place that, you know, where you'd watch, you know, weird videos in high school, but it wasn't necessarily a media force that rivals network television like it is today.
15:13.92
Pat deNNIS
Social media existed, but video was quite rare. Like this is well before like the pivot to video. I don't even know if you could post video on Facebook at that point. Twitter definitely didn't have video capacity back then.
15:26.86
Pat deNNIS
So there wasn't really outside of like FedExing a tape to the like local news stations, which I did multiple times. There was way less capacity to actually capitalize on things that happened. And like, even if you get a transcript out on social media back then, like you, the same for like statewide political reporters would see it. And it's like, you're not changing votes that way.
15:50.12
Pat deNNIS
So like, a big part of the trackers job because you're trying to get as much as you can out of these employees are hiring a big part of my job back then. And like I was explicitly told this, they were like, get that camera in his face and make them nervous. Like that's, that's what my job was. And you know, this is Jersey. It was a very confrontational job. I loved it.
16:08.50
Pat deNNIS
You know, you'd, you'd yell stuff and hit you know, the retired state troopers that work for him would like elbow you around and you'd be like, sir, sir. Yeah. So that,
16:17.60
Pat deNNIS
these days for us is not how we do things. It is not necessary. We have the capacity to actually like review, like understand, disseminate like virtually everything these candidates say. And like that is more important to us than you know any of those like old kind of juvenile pressure tactics we would use back in the day.
16:40.05
Pat deNNIS
So our entire strategy is formed around that, like getting the content comes first. And that means that, you know, back in the day where like you were literally like lugging a camera around and like you would be instantly noticed as a tracker, like our our folks will generally be there and, know, recording in a much you know less egregious way. Like, you know, it's their goal, generally speaking, not to be noticed.
17:07.55
Pat deNNIS
And that lets us get just access to a lot more stuff. And then that lets us put out a lot more stuff. And that lets them let their guard down a lot more often if the if they don't even notice the trackers there. And it lets our trackers essentially stay undercover for much longer, which was never a thing when I was doing it. Back then, you'd clock the tracker on day two and you know you'd get kicked out every event for the rest of the the rest of the campaign cycle. it was very ah ah interesting job to have.
17:35.91
Sam Shirazi
Yeah, sounds like a you're always going to have stories when you're a tracker. I did want to have a a separate question about what's going on with the federal fallout. That's obviously the name of the podcast and what we're seeing in Virginia in terms of the changes to the federal government and what's going on in D.C.
17:52.26
Sam Shirazi
Could you talk about like what your organization is thinking in terms of reaching voters and talking to them about that issue?
17:52.43
Pat deNNIS
Yeah.
17:59.03
Pat deNNIS
About federal job cuts and like the Doge stuff?
18:01.05
Sam Shirazi
Yeah, federal job cuts. And I guess also, and or the recent bill, the reconciliation bill that was passed by Congress, which obviously is is going to have a big impact on Virginia and the rest of the country.
18:08.13
Pat deNNIS
Oh, yeah.
18:12.26
Pat deNNIS
Indeed. And everything that's happening, it's, you know, what we're seeing out of the Trump administration is really it's a gloves off moment. Right. And it's not a a lot of people try to frame this as like, oh, it's a gloves off moment.
18:26.44
Pat deNNIS
for like some kind of populist thing because Trump did run accurately run as like a populist candidate. But the stuff he's doing is, you know, pure like D.C. think tank conservatism. Right.
18:39.83
Pat deNNIS
It's like shredding like institutions that exist to serve the American people. throwing the employees out on the street, employees who have worked in some cases for 50 years to build skill sets that go out there and help farmers, you know, folks that go out there and help veterans or laying off 30,000 people from the Veterans Administration. It's just extraordinary.
19:03.82
Pat deNNIS
You know, laying off people who, you know, keep us safe when we fly. And the layoffs, the human total layoffs is extraordinary. But beyond that, the loss in institutional memory and government capacity to our nation is just like, it's going to, it's going to resonate for decades in some, in a lot of ways that we won't ever know, but bad things will happen. And, know,
19:32.61
Pat deNNIS
uh they wouldn't have happened if we hadn't have just shredded our state capacity at the you know at the whim of folks who were you know in the office management and budget and just spent have spent their time since uh since college seething at the idea that they might have to pay taxes that um benefit everybody. So that is what's going on in the cuts. And the recent Supreme court case makes it even worse. Like I think it's, you know, if I am an eternal optimist and I do believe that,
20:03.23
Pat deNNIS
especially with some of the, you know, the real movement and the democratic party for government efficiency and the abundance movement and just like making government work extremely effectively. Like I do see a potential future where we rebuild in a way that,
20:22.22
Pat deNNIS
that truly does help people and maybe like there will be damage out of this but maybe we end up with something even better that that's sort of my hopeful message but it's it's obviously very difficult to to even talk about while we're watching this destruction now the the big beautiful bill some people hate that name just know i'm saying that sarcastically so it is on message it's not it's not actually beautiful you know it's literally like i've read large fractions of the 800 page bill it just straight up cuts taxes for people who are the market for a new private jet and what
20:59.99
Pat deNNIS
those like where that money is made up is just like we're cutting health care for for families and like cutting food for poor kids. You know, there's a there's a thing in there. If you buy an expensive sports car over six figures, you get to write off your ah ah ah the interest on your loan.
21:20.32
Pat deNNIS
You know, it doesn't that doesn't really do you a lot of good if you're taking the standard deduction like an oral person or if you're, you know, not buying a six figure car and you're financially responsible. But it's, you know, it's just giveaway after giveaway. There's special giveaways to banks.
21:36.30
Pat deNNIS
Really like. what it will do to the deficit. And look, I am a lifelong Democrat. I am historically speaking, have a nuanced take on like the role of deficits.
21:49.50
Pat deNNIS
but we've never seen anything like this. Uh, there is a real, not just a chance, like a likelihood that the amount of debt that is going to be rung up by this bill, if we don't put an end to it, uh, will,
22:05.79
Pat deNNIS
not just like throw, like make the dead number bigger, which is very abstract, but like on a very realistic sense, like make it much more difficult for the government to borrow money, spike interest rates. And the knock on effects are that it of that is just like way more expensive to get a mortgage, right?
22:21.58
Pat deNNIS
Way more expensive to buy a house, you know, way more expensive to do anything. And, Uh, you know, this, this is just going to be really bad for people, but this is, this is why we got to take the house back in 2026. A lot of these provisions do not come into effect, a couple years.
22:38.71
Pat deNNIS
So, uh, there is an ability to take power back and undo some of this damage, but it will be, it will be quite difficult.
22:46.70
Sam Shirazi
Well, speaking of 2026 midterms, mean what are your plans for the midterms? And do you think there is going to be more of an emphasis on what the Republicans are doing as opposed to a message that the Democrats might be able to do if they're in power? So the reason I ask this is i mean obviously your organization, I would say, is more focused on showing things that the Republicans are doing.
23:11.48
Sam Shirazi
And sometimes you hear things from voters saying, well, we don't want to just hear from the Democrats about all the bad things Republicans are doing.
23:17.45
Pat deNNIS
Yeah. Yeah.
23:17.71
Sam Shirazi
We want to hear a message about what the Democrats are going to do.
23:19.64
Pat deNNIS
Mm-hmm.
23:21.45
Sam Shirazi
And, you know, it's hard in a political reality when There isn't, you know they're not going to be in power in the White House for at least a few years. so How do you kind of get both the hopeful message out while you're still kind of holding Republicans accountable for what they're doing?
23:38.74
Pat deNNIS
Yeah, for sure. And it is incredibly difficult. So number one, i agree with you. And like on like just a basic level, like we need not and we need a positive vision, which you know is an abstract concept. But like we need also leaders who are stepping up, who are personifying that positive vision, who are showing um know what a future can be like, are you know giving people hope.
24:04.61
Pat deNNIS
And, you know, as somebody who runs a super PAC, as somebody who is like legally prohibited from talking to the, uh, to the incumbent, uh, candidates who are running for office, it is very difficult for us to take the lead on that.
24:18.98
Pat deNNIS
and generally speaking, that is an area where we look to be supporting, the candidates that said the candidates are doing this.
24:27.91
Pat deNNIS
it's not an easy time to be hopeful. it's, uh, some folks have not, uh, built necessarily the communications chops over the years. A lot of folks who are, are policy folks, but they, I'm seeing like just a ton of action on like getting better at communicating, being able to drive these messages home and we'll be there to amplify them.
24:48.66
Pat deNNIS
But at the same time, like, We're a really good partner when it comes to, you know, given a little metaphorical bloody nose to to some of these folks who have just really been hurting their constituents. Right. A lot of these people who are losing Medicaid are Trump voters.
25:05.79
Pat deNNIS
And like somebody's got to tell them like the extent to which they've been betrayed, like extent to which they're going to have to either their kids aren't going to see a doctor or they're going to have to be filling out this, you know, egregious paperwork for these quote unquote work requirements, which are really just, you know, way to pile paperwork on poor people until they can't handle it anymore. Then they lose insurance. then the congressional budget office gets to say you saved money.
25:30.83
Sam Shirazi
Well, and it's been really interesting being able to hear the perspective of ah your your organization and and what it's like to do that kind of work. How can people find out more if they're interested?
25:41.29
Pat deNNIS
Yeah, um so I'm much to my eternal shame, hopelessly addicted to Twitter. I'm at Pat Dennis, but I am also to my less eternal shame, hopelessly addicted to Blue Sky, where I'm also at Pat Dennis. But we are you can just search American Bridge 21st Century on either of those or any social media site, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.
26:02.76
Sam Shirazi
Well, I appreciate you coming on. I think it's definitely interesting getting that perspective and check it out if you're interested. And thanks again. And this has been Federal Fallout and I'll join you next time.
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